Melissa Reilly Resilient Kids Micro Audio Summit
[00:00:00] Welcome to Raising Resilient Children in the Age of Digital Dependency Micro Audio Summit, designed especially to help you moms and dads to have better relationships with your kids, more confidence in your parenting, and less stress in your life. Throughout these interviews, you'll hear speakers who will share life changing tools and strategies that you can quickly and easily follow and use with your family starting today.
I'm your host, Kathy Vamenthuysen, 20 year mom. 30 year educator and creator of ConvRelation. I am so excited to bring you these expert interviews. Let's get started. Today I'm chatting with my good friend Melissa Riley about digital limits, easing mom guilt, in a tech age. And before we dive into the conversation, let me tell you a little bit about Melissa.
Melissa Riley is a [00:01:00] doctor and clinical psychologist and author and a TEDx speaker who combines her personal experience as a mom of two boys and professional expertise to help moms who don't have the support and guidance of a loving mother. by their side. With over 23 years in the field, she's designed a personalized coaching program that transforms feelings of loneliness and uncertainty into confidence and resilience.
Her passion shines through in her work, creating a beacon of hope for those navigating motherhood without their own mother's support. With that in mind, How are you, Melissa? I'm great, Kathy. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here and where I am in the world, it's snowy, but it makes for a very beautiful backdrop for our conversation.
Yes, it's snowy here as well. So we got two snowy places, but it is gorgeous. Thank you so much for joining me. It's so special to have you. So today we're going [00:02:00] to be delving into the topic digital limits, easing mom guilt in a tech age, which focuses on managing the guilt that often comes with setting digital boundaries for children.
We'll explore how to align our parenting actions with our personal values and foster healthy emotional responses. I am like so excited to, to talk with you about this. So the first thing that I'm like really interested in is why do parents feel guilty about limiting their kid's screen time? Well, let's start with first defining what is guilt.
Guilt is simply an emotion. It is like all emotion. Part of our experience as human beings so that we can come together in groups and community. So guilt is not an indicator of right or wrong. It's simply an emotion and it gets triggered anytime we are doing something [00:03:00] outside of our comfort zone, or we're doing something new, or in the instance of setting limits with our kids with digital media, it gets triggered because we are uncomfortable with the feedback we are about to receive or already have received. So when we say no to more screen time, children are upset because they enjoy it, it feels good. It promotes dopamine in their brain. So saying no means we're going to get an intense response and therefore our brain understands it, that something is wrong, our kids are not happy, so we must be doing something wrong.
Which, of course, isn't the case, but that's the emotion that gets triggered. You see, that's interesting, saying that it's an emotion, because I never thought of it like that. Because I always think like, oh, when you're guilty, you automatically think that you're doing something wrong. And that's not, it's just It's an emotion [00:04:00] and uncomfortability.
I love that part. Can you speak a little bit more about us being uncomfortable? And that's what makes us actually feel guilty. Yes, absolutely. So if we think Evolutionarily, you know, the role of emotion, like I said, a few moments ago, all emotion allows us to live together in community. So we need to feel things so that we come together in healthy ways.
Now the role of guilt. is simply to act as a pause button. So infants don't experience guilt. We don't start experiencing that emotion until toddlerhood, preschool age, when we start actually acting on our environment. So guilt acts as our internal pause button. So when we are doing something, We have an opportunity to think about whether what we're doing is good [00:05:00] for the whole, is consistent with our conscience, or if it is potentially harmful.
So unfortunately, the name that's been given to that emotion, guilt, is also the name to a legal. term that means culpability and responsible for wrongdoing so it makes sense that we just automatically pair it with this idea of being wrong and not okay. But the fact of the matter it isn't, it's simply an emotion like happiness, sadness, joy, surprise, excitement, and so forth.
So when we're uncomfortable, that part of our brain that signals to us that, Ooh, something might be wrong. That gets triggered and therefore we feel guilt, which like I said, acts as the pause button, but the fact that it gets triggered doesn't mean we did wrong. Yeah, I'm gonna keep that one in mind.
It's the pause button. Yes. We all need that pause button, [00:06:00] so for example, you know, this silly little example, you know, my son when he was little, you know, like all kids, and I guarantee every single mother listening to the summit is gonna get this.
So their son is asking for another cookie, you know, an hour before dinner. Um, and you say no, right? And then the kid gets all sad and mad you know, says you're mean right now, initially. You know, I may feel a little bit guilty like, oh, you know, I mean, my son's unhappy, but you know, I realized, no, it's totally okay.
It's not healthy for my son to have a third cookie before dinner, right? And so we reasoned it out and it makes sense to us, but again, the initial response when someone around us is upset or disappointed or angry. Isn't getting something they want is to feel guilt and that's normal. So in, in today's digital world, how does guilt affect the way parents set screen rules [00:07:00] for their kids?
Well, I think the number one, impact it has is parents tend to be quick to set a limit or set a rule and then change it. When they're faced with the pushback and feedback. Unfortunately, that's one of the worst things that we can do is to set a limit and then alter it based on the child's response,
because what that does is in the child's brain, it teaches them that all they need to do to get their way is to keep pushing. And we all know that from just simple two and three year old tantrums, right? You give into the tantrum and it gets worse. You know, the next time and so you stand your ground and you maintain that limit.
Even while feeling guilty and things will go better eventually. Another way that guilt gets in the way is parents will relate [00:08:00] their device use to what they promote with regards to their children's device use. Now, it can be helpful and healthy to model healthy device use, but we as adults have fully formed brains.
And therefore, our exposure to devices is different than the developing brain of a child. And we need to keep that in mind. So if you are on your device for eight hours a day, it isn't going to have the same impact, although it will have an impact, you know, let's not pretend it doesn't, but it won't have the same impact as it does for developing brain, particularly those really young brains in, motherhood, preschool, and so forth.
And so that's another thing to recognize. You can make different decisions for your children than yourself. And it is okay to do that. So if you feel that you aren't [00:09:00] able to limit your own screen time in a way that you want your children's screen time to be limited, that's okay. You can be different with your kids.
And I think that's good for moms and dads to hear that it is okay. Because were not the child and when you had said about the tantrums and if you get into it, it becomes worse and it reminds me of the grocery store and you know, the kid wants a candy bar and you say no and they scream and then you give it to them.
Well, guess what? Next time they're going to do the same thing. So it's, that's, that's so true , it will get better. I think that's what you said. It will get better. Yes. Hold strong. Yes. So what tips do you have for parents to handle guilt when they limit their child's device use?
Well, first and foremost, like I said earlier, is to recognize that guilt is an emotion. And so when they feel it, just simply to step back and take a moment and take that pause. You do not need to react in the moment. [00:10:00] You can simply say, give me a moment. And then you make that decision. I joke around with people I work with all the time.
I always say I call my guilt Gladys. I bring her everywhere with me. But she now has to ride in the back seat. She no longer drives. So, it isn't about getting rid of the guilt. It's about recognizing guilt's place. Right? And you continue to be the driver in your own life. So that's really important.
Recognize that what you're feeling is simply an emotion. And then like with every intense emotion, what you do is just take a moment or two and let the emotion decline. When we don't do anything to step in its way, all intense emotion will abate. But oftentimes we get in its way. We think about things or we do things that are consistent with the exact opposite of what we're wanting to feel.
So it's just take a moment, take a pause. You can always [00:11:00] walk away and then come back and give your answer. That is perfectly acceptable to do. I love that. It's okay to take some time. Yes. You don't need to have an immediate answer. Exactly. And then the other thing I recommend is run it by other people, you know, ask for feedback, other adults.
Right. So if you have a life partner, that's awesome. If you have a friend, you know, if you have a, you know, a mother, not most of my audience doesn't, but you can ask them, Hey, Hey, I'm in this situation. What are your thoughts about this? And then get other feedback and, most of the time what you're thinking is spot on.
Now, having said that, that doesn't mean you need to follow what other people suggest or say. It just means you are normalizing or finding out for yourself if what you are experiencing seems to be typical. And that's where asking other professionals can be really helpful. I love that because sometimes I think would we make decisions as adults [00:12:00] for our kids and then we ask someone else.
Do you feel that we ask people with the hopes that they're just going to agree with us. Oftentimes, yes, we want confirmation bias. So how can parents deal with their child's upset feelings like anger or sadness about screen time limits?
Okay, so I am going to talk a little bit about emotional boundaries and what healthy emotional boundaries are. So if you think about the definition of the word boundary, it is a separation, between two things. And with regards to emotional boundaries, that's a separation between my emotional experience and your emotional experience, the you being your child, right?
Now, children. Experience emotion just like we do. And so happiness and sadness, disappointment, frustration, anger, all of those are [00:13:00] normal, healthy, and appropriate reactions to when they don't get something they want. And I think we as parents often forget that. That it is okay that their child feels something and it is okay that they feel something intensely.
We as parents, particularly moms, are often in the role of soothing our children. Or helping them regulate their emotion, particularly if their emotion is intense and they become dysregulated. And therefore often we have a sense that we need to do something about that emotion. We need to calm it down. We need to minimize it.
We need the child to be okay. I disagree a hundred percent with that. We need to step away and let the child have their emotion.
Exception to that is if the child is dysregulated, which means they're in a meltdown and they're not [00:14:00] able to manage or experience their own emotion in a healthy way, and then you can co-regulate with them, which means you stay regulated, meaning your emotions, you are able to respond and process from a place of conscious control. But most of the time, at least 95 percent of the time, the child isn't in a meltdown, they're just experiencing intense emotion, and therefore it is not our job to step in and make their emotion different. And often the best thing we can do is really just validate. So just, yeah, I understand you're upset.
Yeah, that's, that's tough. I'm sorry. I'd be mad too. It's okay, right? And just be there with them and then say nothing, right? Just let them experience what they're experiencing, love them through it. And remember, you do not need your children to agree [00:15:00] with you or to understand why you're doing what you're doing.
And again, I think that is also another mistake we make more so than we've done in past generations is this attempt to make our children understand. Why we're doing what we're doing. And that comes from a good place, right? Because, you know, many of us parents, you know, live to the age of, you know, do it because I said so.
And so we're trying to be very different, right? Well, you're doing it for this reason. But unfortunately, what happens is oftentimes those reasons are beyond our child's capacity to understand. As we have to remember, our children's brains are still growing. They're not done growing until we're 25 years old, for goodness sake.
So they aren't necessarily going to truly understand our reasoning, and they don't need to. They just need to know what the answer is, that we're going to love them no matter what their reaction is. I think about when you see kids have meltdowns in a public place.
Is [00:16:00] it maybe it's because the mom's embarrassed and they try to step in and make it better and that's why they give them the candy bar or whatever it is that the child was screaming about. And I don't know about you, but I feel like saying to, moms and to dads, no one's judging you.
Like, when I see that, I'm like, hold strong, mom, hold strong, dad, what do you think? Well, absolutely. Well, what happens, especially if it's a meltdown versus a tantrum. So a tantrum is a, is a intentional act to get something. Right. And, so, you know, children do that, especially really bright children because it works.
All right. Now a meltdown is when our either environment or our externally or our internal environment environment. So our emotion is above our resources to handle or manage. Right, and so now, childs, and many of you will see this when, particularly when your kids are little and [00:17:00] tired, you'll notice the meltdowns more often, right?
It's they no longer have resources to manage their frustration. And so they melt down. And so that dysregulated meltdown state is really uncomfortable to be around. And what it does for, for parents is now their nervous system mirrors that. They start to feel something's wrong. There's danger. Now that's, they know there isn't danger, but their brain starts responding and therefore their body reacts that way.
And so in those situations. Again, our job isn't to try and get the child to stop. It's really to keep our nervous systems in check and to just kind of stand there, be there with them and stay calm ourselves. And like you said, Kathy, nobody's judging. In fact, sometimes a nice kind person will come over and say, Hey, can I take your other child and go for a walk with them so that you're okay?
And now sometimes you will get a judgy person. I mean, that happens sometimes, right? But it's irrelevant. It [00:18:00] doesn't matter. What does matter is what you're doing and what your child is doing. And that's such fantastic advice, Melissa, that it's okay as a parent, don't get worked up to the level that they are because it's not going to solve anything.
Exactly. In my household, I never disciplined things like stomping up the stairs or slamming the door. Now my husband gets a little triggered by the slamming of the door, but me, whatever, that's their emotion. That's the outlet they have. Now, you know, if they break something or they, you know, become violent in some way to themselves or to property, that's something different.
Now, in that moment, I don't discipline. In that moment, I help to co regulate and then later have a conversation, right? But not in the moment because again, intense emotion is what it is. And the more intense the emotion is, the less we're able to rationally [00:19:00] hear and think things through. And so that's not the moment you as a parent or your child can work through the problems.
Yeah, that's excellent. and you know what, love the natural consequences. So if they break something, then they have to clean it up or they have to pay for it, like, there's no reason to get upset and start yelling and screaming. Because what's done is done, so you move on. Oh my gosh, I hope parents are taking notes as they're listening to this.
This is fantastic. So, go ahead. I was just going to have a funny example. This is one of the times I settle in with my son. It probably was around device use. And we had just moved into the house we're living into now. And he was real angry. And he went storming out of the house. And he flew open the front door.
Now, our old front door. You know, there were backstops. It didn't matter. But this front door didn't. And the doorknob went right through [00:20:00] the drywall. So at that point, he just was in tears because he had no intention of creating damage. I mean, I felt so bad for him. So I told him not to worry.
He was like 10 at the time. I said not to worry. And I hung a picture, it's still there, over the hole in the wall. And I said, when you are old enough and you have your first job, you will pay to fix it. He's like, okay mommy, I promise, I promise. I'm like, I know because I'm just covering that hole up with this pretty picture.
And it's gonna stay there because I'm not gonna do anything about it. Good for you. That's excellent. So what's your advice for parents to make sure that their rules about screens match up with what they believe is important? Okay, so you are going to hear. So many, you know, ideas and regulations and, frameworks about what is good screen time, what's not good screen time.
And I'm sure others will talk about what that means, what healthy [00:21:00] screen time is. Not all screen time is, created equal, but it's important as a family. For the parents, if it's a two, two parent household, to really come together with regards to what they see as the value of screen time and digital technology and how they want to handle it.
And so all of the guidelines and recommendations and information is, simply professional opinion and is a tool we can use to decide. Within our own family. And so those conversations need to happen. How do we see it? What role does it play within our family? Is it a reward? Is it something that children can earn?
Is it just something that's used because they have free time and we are allowing them to manage that? Those are conversations that parents should [00:22:00] have often. Because that is going to change as the children change, and their developmental ages change, and your family circumstances change. So I think that the biggest You know, tip is to have these open conversations about recognizing what role digital material has in your family and, and what to do about it and when.
Yeah. That's the, having that conversation is huge. Yes. It really is because then you know you're on the same page because, you know kids, oh, mom doesn't let me have it, I want to go to dad because I know he does. So that's excellent is that parents having that conversation and are you saying that conversation not in front of their kids?
Correct. Yes. That's a private conversation. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Right, because there, because there needs to be space for parents to disagree with each other. Yeah. Right? We're not going to have the same opinion and that's all right. So how can parents [00:23:00] ensure their digital boundaries for their kids reflect their own values and parenting goals?
It goes back to that conversation that I was just saying, and when they find that their children's device use. Stirs something uncomfortable in themselves, then that's time to look at it. So, for example, I was working with this lovely family and they had gotten into this pattern where each of them would be eating dinner and they'd all have their own devices.
Okay. And it was just kind of downtime. And for the mom, this started feeling uncomfortable. She started feeling like the family wasn't really interacting to the, the depth that she was hoping for. Now her, kids were, you know, kind of at that tough age. One was 10, the other was 13 and the third one was 16.
So they were already kind of in their own spaces anyway. [00:24:00] But she felt uncomfortable. And so what we did is we talked a lot about using that discomfort that she noticed as a way to start brain solving, brain storming ways of solving that problem. And so it didn't happen over overnight, but What ultimately happened is the family, not cold turkey, but eventually over several different steps, started putting the devices away during the start of the dinner.
And that was the time where they talked about the day, and the conversations, and things like that. And, nobody, including the parents, and it was hard for the parents as well, could pick up a device. for at least 15 minutes. So even if they finished their meal, it didn't matter. They had to sit there and wait.
Now it sounds silly, right? 15 minutes, who can go without a device? But, in this family, that was just the pattern they had gotten into. And none of us get into these unhealthy patterns [00:25:00] intentionally. None of us say, yeah, I want my family all to be zombies in their own chair. We don't do that. It just happens.
And so we need patience and grace with ourself. But when you notice something's going on in front of you, that's making you uncomfortable, it's all right. Just sit with it a little bit, think about it, and then have the conversations and make small little changes. And the little changes can continue to grow on each other.
Yeah. And because those whatever it is doesn't happen overnight. Right. And so you can't expect it just to change. It's like you said, it's not, doesn't have to be cold turkey. . No, because they had tried that like several times before and it just never worked. And again, not just because of the kids, but the parents were, were just as starved for their device as the kids were.
And so it really, what they. Discovered they needed to do, was find different ways of asking questions and storytelling. And so they, they found, you know, cute little cards and different games that they would play while they ate dinner [00:26:00] to spark conversation, to spark, you know, um, connection.
So the fact that it didn't come natural. It isn't bad. It's not, you know, it's not a ding against that family. That's just how it was. And they needed to find other ways of connecting. And I guess you get so into that pattern of doing it one way that it's hard to think about in another way. And that's where someone like you can come in and say, think about this differently.
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, my gosh. Wow. This was amazing, Melissa. There are so many things. I mean, when you started off and said it's an emotion and you don't have to feel bad. That's really powerful. When I said before, I hope people are taking notes because there is some gold in here.
So I was looking at your free resource, Nurturing Yourself, a workbook for overwhelmed moms. Can you just talk a little bit more about that? [00:27:00] Yes, so in this resource, there are some prompts and some suggestions with regards to, discovering what your self care patterns are, what feels good to you, and also about connecting with others.
You know, we, particularly as moms, try to pour from an empty pitcher, right? We give and give and give until we have nothing left. And when there isn't anything left, Then that's when we start to suffer and start to experience symptoms and problems and things like that. Feeling overwhelmed is a natural state for moms.
We all have it. And, and I don't believe any mother out there that says at some point in her life she didn't feel overwhelmed. That just doesn't exist. And so we need to normalize that feeling, but then give ourselves the time and space to take care of ourselves so that we become replenished. Because when we're replenished, that's when we do our best job.
In mothering. Yes. I'm definitely going to be downloading [00:28:00] that. Thank you so much, Melissa, for sharing and taking the time to, speak with me today. It has been my pleasure. Thank you so much, Kathy, for having me. Okay, listeners, please make sure you visit the speaker interview page and download all the incredible free resources.
Be sure to listen to the other micro audio topics in this series so you can have better relationships with your kids, more confidence in your parenting, and less stress in your life. Thanks for listening.
